>>> PRODUCTION FUNDING FOR "QED WITH DR. B" IS PROVIDED BY AMERICAN ELECTRIC POWER FOUNDATION.

BOUNDLESS ENERGY FOR BRIGHTER FUTURES.

AND BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> I'M DR. FREDERIC BERTLEY, IMMUNOLOGIST AND EDUCATOR.

SCIENCE IS EVERYWHERE AND FOR EVERYONE.

AND IT'S ALL AROUND US, SHAPING OUR LIVES EVERY SINGLE DAY.

IN THIS SERIES, WE'LL LOOK AT CUTTING-EDGE RESEARCH, TALK TO THE SCIENTISTS WHO ARE CHARTING NEW FRONTIERS, AND SOLVING TODAY'S PROBLEMS TO MAKE ALL OUR LIVES BETTER.

WHEN A SCIENTIST OR MATHEMATICIAN DEMONSTRATES A PROOF OF CONCEPT IN THEIR WORK, THEY OFTEN USE THE TERM "QED", QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM.

THAT ROUGHLY TRANSLATES TO "QUITE EASILY DEMONSTRATED."

WELCOME TO "QED WITH DR.

B."

>> HEY, DR. B.

HOW ARE YOU DOING TODAY?

>> GOOD.

HOW YOU DOING, DIANA?

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO TALK ABOUT TODAY?

>> TODAY, WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE.

OUR CULTURE SEEMS TO BE FASCINATED BY ALIENS AND ALIEN LIFE.

AND ACTUALLY OVER 83 YEARS AGO ORSON WELLES DID HIS TERRIFYING ADDRESS TO THE NATION, "WAR OF THE WORLDS."

AND SINCE THEN WE'VE HAD COUNTLESS TV SHOWS AND MOVIES ABOUT THIS CONCEPT OF WHAT ALIEN LIFE IS.

AND ACTUALLY MY FAVORITE IS "CONTACT" WITH JODIE FOSTER.

HOW ABOUT YOU?

>> OH, THAT'S A TOUGH ONE.

I'D HAVE TO GO WITH "PREDATOR", NUMBER ONE.

THAT WAS AT A TIME IN MY LIFE WHEN THAT CAME OUT AND IT REALLY JUXTAPOSED EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING ON EARTH.

AND THESE ARE REALLY FUN AND IMAGINATIVE AND SOMETIMES A LITTLE BIT SCARY MOVIES.

BUT HAVEN'T SCIENTISTS ACTUALLY BEEN STUDYING LIFE BEYOND EARTH FOR A LONG TIME?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT POINT.

FIRST OF ALL, ON OUR PLANET EARTH, WE HAVE THIS INCREDIBLE WEALTH OF BIODIVERSITY.

FROM MICROBACTERIA, TO PLANTS, TO OF COURSE ANIMALS AND HUMANS.

SO WE HAVE THIS SENSE OF WHAT WE THINK LIFE IS.

WHEN WE THINK OF OUR PLANET, WE'RE ONE PLANET ORBITING OUR SUN, OUR STAR.

WELL, IN OUR GALAXY, THERE ARE BILLIONS OF STARS LIKE OUR SUN, WITH POTENTIALLY BILLIONS OF PLANETS LIKE OURS.

THAT'S JUST OUR GALAXY.

THEN THERE ARE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF GALAXIES IN THE BROAD UNIVERSE.

SO THE POSSIBILITY OF HAVING LIFE OUT THERE IS PROBABLY REAL.

BUT WE REALLY NEED TO DRILL DOWN AND THINK, "WHAT DO WE EVEN MEAN BY LIFE?"

WHAT ARE WE LOOKING FOR?

FOR THAT ANSWER I SAT DOWN WITH ASTROBIOLOGIST NATHALIE CABROL, WHO IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE CARL SAGAN CENTER FOR STUDY OF LIFE AT THE SETI INSTITUTE IN MOUNTAIN VIEW, CALIFORNIA.

>> WELL, DR. NATHALIE CABROL THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US ON "QED WITH DR. B" TODAY.

>> I AM VERY PLEASED TO BE HERE.

THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME.

>> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE, WHAT EXACTLY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

FOR EXAMPLE, WE OFTEN HEAR, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA OF SOME HUMANOID CREATURE WITH TWO ARMS AND TWO LEGS.

WHEN WE ARE LOOKING FOR LIFE THOUGH, WHAT ARE WE ACTUALLY LOOKING FOR?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, BECAUSE ALTHOUGH WE ARE LOOKING FOR LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE, WE DON'T HAVE A CONSENSUS OF THE DEFINITION OF LIFE ON EARTH.

SO HOW DO WE SEARCH FOR SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT REALLY IS ABOUT, RIGHT?

SO, THE LIFE WE KNOW IS WHAT YOU JUST MENTIONED.

AND IT'S COMPLEX STUFF.

IT'S LIFE THAT HAS GONE THROUGH FOUR BILLION YEARS OF EVOLUTION.

BUT LIFE ON EARTH WAS NOT ALWAYS THIS WAY.

IN FACT, FOR 80% OF THE HISTORY OF EARTH, LIFE WAS VERY SIMPLE.

IT WAS UNICELLULAR.

IT TOOK ALMOST FOUR BILLION YEARS TO GET TO COMPLEX CREATURES.

AND SO THEN YOU SEE THE DIVERSITY OF LIFE THAT INTERACTS WITH ITS ENVIRONMENT.

AND THE WAY LIFE LOOKS LIKE IN FACT IS A RESPONSE TO THE ENVIRONMENT.

SO THE KEY HERE IS EVOLUTION OF LIFE AND ENVIRONMENT.

WE LOOK THIS WAY BECAUSE WE LIVE ON THIS PLANET.

ALIENS ARE GOING TO LOOK A DIFFERENT WAY BECAUSE THEY ARE INTERACTING WITH A DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT.

BUT I WOULD SAY THAT IT IS VERY LIKELY THAT 90% OF ALIEN LIFE IS MICROSCOPIC, JUST LIKE LIFE HERE ON EARTH.

>> YOU LOOK AT EXTREME ENVIRONMENTS HERE ON EARTH, SUCH AS THE ALTITUDE REMOTE LAKES IN THE ANDES.

HOW DOES YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF ENVIRONMENTS IN WHICH ORGANISMS CAN LIVE HERE ON EARTH INFORM US ABOUT THE SEARCH FOR LIFE OUTSIDE OF EARTH?

>> OUR PLANET IS A NATURAL LAB.

FOR ME, THE ANDES -- I GO THERE BECAUSE THE ENVIRONMENT AS A WHOLE IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT MARS WAS 3.5 BILLION YEARS AGO.

IT HAS A THIN ATMOSPHERE, VERY HIGH UV, VERY DRY, VERY LITTLE WATER, DESICCATED, ETC.

SO WHAT I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHEN I GO THERE IS FIRST, IS LIFE POSSIBLE THERE?

AND IF IT IS THERE, WHERE IT IS, HOW DOES IT LOOK LIKE, AND WHAT DO I NEED TO DETECT AND IDENTIFY IT?

>> TAKE US TO THE NEXT STEP WITH MARS PERSEVERANCE, THE ROVER.

IT'S ROAMING AROUND THE PLANET.

WHAT EXACTLY IS IT LOOKING FOR?

AND WHEN YOU SEE THAT, HOW WILL YOU DIFFERENTIATE IF THAT'S LIFE OR NOT?

>> I ALWAYS JOKE THAT THE ONLY WAY WE CAN TELL FOR SURE THAT THERE IS LIFE ON MARS IS IF WE HAVE A RABBIT JUMPING IN FRONT OF THE ROVER.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

SO PERSEVERANCE IS A BIOSIGNATURE DETECTION MISSION, WHICH MEANS THAT IT'S LOOKING FOR THE SIGNATURE OF LIFE ON MARS.

AND HOW IT DOES THAT?

WELL, IT DOES THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL OF THIS KNOWLEDGE ACCUMULATED FROM THE MARS EXPLORATION ROVER MISSION AND CURIOSITY MISSION.

WE LEARNED ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT OF MARS A LONG TIME AGO.

THERE AGAIN, COEVOLUTION OF LIFE AND ENVIRONMENT, WE GO OUR HISTORICAL ANALOGS.

WE LEARN WHAT KIND OF LIFE IS THERE AND THEN WE LEARN ABOUT THE CHEMICAL, THE MORPHOLOGICAL AND OTHER SIGNATURES, POTENTIAL SIGNATURES OF LIFE.

SO WE ARE GOING TO LOOK FOR THAT.

WE ARE GOING TO LOOK FOR THE POTENTIAL INTERACTION BETWEEN LIFE AND ITS ENVIRONMENT ON MARS AND THIS INTERACTION CAN BE RECORDED IN THE ROCKS IF YOUR PREFER, EITHER AS CHEMICALS, MOLECULES, OR IT COULD BE MORPHOLOGY, LIKE THE BUILD OF THE STRUCTURE THAT LIFE BUILDS.

AT THIS POINT IN TIME THERE IS NO DEFINITE BIOSIGNATURE.

THERE IS NO DEFINITE THING THAT CAN TELL YOU THIS IS LIFE.

HOWEVER, HAVING SAID THAT, WHEN YOU HAVE THAT MOUNTING EVIDENCE, THEN YOU GO THERE AND YOU GRAB THAT EVIDENCE.

!

!musiC@!!!musiC@!

>> THE STUFF WE ARE MADE OF IS VERY COMMON IN THE UNIVERSE.

AND BECAUSE OF THE DISCOVERY OF EXOPLANETS, WE ARE REALIZING WORLDS LIKE THE EARTH, THEY'RE FAIRLY COMMON.

SO THERE IS OBVIOUSLY POTENTIAL FOR MANY, MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF LIFE.

WE ARE REALLY BEGINNERS AS A CIVILIZATION.

WE ARE A TEENAGE CIVILIZATION AND THAT SHOWS ON THE WAY WE ARE TREATING OUR PLANET.

WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS EXPERIMENTAL PHASE.

YOU KNOW, TEENAGERS HAVE ENOUGH BRAIN TO GET THEMSELVES IN TROUBLE.

AND THIS IS WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

BUT I WOULD SAY THAT I THINK WE ARE NOT DOING TOO BAD.

BUT IMAGINE AN ALIEN CIVILIZATION THAT'S ONLY A FEW HUNDRED YEARS AHEAD OF US.

WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY CAN DO?

SAY A THOUSAND YEARS OR EVEN A MILLION YEARS, RIGHT?

AND THEN YOU CAN THINK THAT THEY HAVE A MUCH BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PHYSICS OF THE UNIVERSE, OF HOW IT WORKS.

AND IT MAY BE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO PRESENT THEMSELVES IN WAYS WE HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT.

!

!musiC@!!!musiC@!

>> WHAT I LOVE ABOUT DR. CABROL'S STORY IS HER RESEARCH IN THE ANDES AND HOW RESEARCHING THAT EXTREME ENVIRONMENT AND HOW IT SUSTAINS LIFE CAN INFORM SCIENTISTS ABOUT HOW OTHER PLACES OUTSIDE OF EARTH CAN SUSTAIN LIFE.

AND IT KIND OF REMINDS ME TOO THAT EARTH IS NOT JUST OUR HOME, BUT IT'S ALSO PART OF THIS BIGGER PLANETARY FAMILY.

AND NOW I AM GETTING VERY PHILOSOPHICAL.

KIND OF LIKE CARL SAGAN, RIGHT?

>> OH, MAN, LEGENDARY CARL SAGAN WAS THE MASTER AT ENSURING WE RESPECTED THE SHEER WONDER OF THIS OUTSTANDING UNIVERSE.

AND IN FACT HE SINGLEHANDEDLY CATALYZED THOUSANDS OF ASTRONOMERS THAT ARE RIGHT NOW LOOKING AT THE HEAVENS AND PROCESSING MAJOR DATA TO HELP FIND OUT, "ARE WE HERE ALONE?".

AND IN PARTICULAR THEY'RE ANALYZING THE HUBBLE TELESCOPE PROCESSING 120GB OF DATA PER WEEK.

THIS IS INCREDIBLE, AND THIS IS ALL THANKS TO CARL SAGAN.

>> AND ACTUALLY OUR NEXT GUEST USES THE DATA FROM THE HUBBLE AND IS ACTUALLY GOING TO TELL US ABOUT A COUPLE OTHER NEW TELESCOPES COMING ONLINE SOON.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT DR. SCOTT GAUDI.

HE'S THE THOMAS JEFFERSON PROFESSOR FOR DISCOVERY AND SPACE EXPLORATION AT THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY DEPARTMENT OF ASTRONOMY.

HE'S ALSO SERVED AS THE CHAIR OF THE NASA EXOPLANET EXPLORATION PROGRAM ANALYSIS GROUP.

>> THERE WAS SOME INTERESTING NEWS THAT CAME OUT ABOUT A POSSIBLE BIOSIGNATURE ON VENUS.

>> WHAT IS A BIOSIGNATURE?

AND WHAT WAS THAT ABOUT?

>> A BIOSIGNATURE IS REALLY ANY SUBSTANCE OR ANY PHENOMENA EVEN THAT IS INDICATIVE OF CURRENT OR PAST LIFE.

FOR EXAMPLE, ON THE EARTH, A BIOSIGNATURE IS OXYGEN, BECAUSE THE OXYGEN ON EARTH IN EARTH'S ATMOSPHERE IS CREATED BY LIFE.

>> SO DID THEY FIND OXYGEN?

>> THEY DID NOT.

THEY FOUND PHOSPHINE, WHICH SOME HAVE ARGUED IS A BIOSIGNATURE.

IT COULD BE A BYPRODUCT OF LIFE.

BUT BIOSIGNATURE BY ITSELF IS NOT IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE OF LIFE.

THERE ARE WHAT WE CALL FALSE POSITIVES, SO THERE ARE ABIOTIC OR NONBIOLOGICAL WAYS OF CREATING PHOSPHINE.

SO YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND THE DETECTION OF ANY BIOSIGNATURE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SYSTEM THAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT.

IN THE CASE OF VENUS, WE KNOW IT'S EXTREMELY HOT, HAS A VERY THICK ATMOSPHERE, SULFURIC ACID CLOUDS, RAIN AND CO2 CLOUDS.

SO WE HAVE TO CONSIDER ALL OF THAT WHEN CONSIDERING WHETHER OR NOT THE DETECTION OF PHOSPHINE IS INDEED INDICATIVE OF LIFE OR IF THERE COULD BE A NONBIOLOGICAL EXPLANATION.

SO EVEN IF IT DOESN'T TURN OUT TO BE DUE TO LIFE, AS A TRIAL RUN FOR WHEN WE GO OUT AND LOOK FOR BIOSIGNATURES ON OTHER PLANETS, AND PERHAPS DETECT THEM, WHAT ARE THE STEPS WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH TO VET THOSE DETECTIONS AND TO REALLY CONVINCE OURSELVES, AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY THE PUBLIC, THAT WHAT WE'VE DETECTED REALLY IS INDICATIVE OF LIFE.

>> SO THERE ARE THESE THINGS CALLED EXOPLANETS.

WHAT IS AN EXOPLANET?

AND WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR?

AND HOW DOES THAT HELP US THINK ABOUT MAYBE THERE IS A REALLY GOOD POSSIBILITY THAT LIFE EXISTS BEYOND EARTH?

>> SO EXOPLANETS VERY SIMPLY ARE JUST PLANETS THAT ORBIT OTHER STARS.

PART OF THE REASON WE LOOK FOR EXOPLANETS IS BECAUSE WE ARE ULTIMATELY LOOKING FOR EVIDENCE OF LIFE ON PLANETS ORBITING OTHER STARS.

FOR MANY HUNDREDS OF YEARS WE ONLY KNEW OF ONE.

THAT WAS OURS.

WE HYPOTHESIZED THERE MAY BE OTHERS, BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE.

AND THEN RIGHT AROUND THE EARLY '90s WE STARTED TO FIND EVIDENCE OF EXOPLANETS.

WE NOW KNOW OF THOUSANDS OF THEM.

AND SO THAT GIVES US HOPE THAT PLANETS LIKE THE EARTH, ROCKY PLANETS WITH THIN ATMOSPHERES CAPABLE OF HAVING LIQUID WATER ON THEIR SURFACE, IF THEY'RE LOCATED AT THE RIGHT DISTANCE FROM THE STAR, THOSE MIGHT BE COMMON.

AND THE PRELIMINARY ESTIMATES IS THAT MAYBE ONE IN FOUR STARS LIKE THE SUN HOSTS A PLANET IN THE RIGHT DISTANCE, WITH THE RIGHT PROPERTIES THAT IT COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE LIQUID WATER AND THEREFORE LIFE.

>> LET'S GET INTO THE TOOLS THAT YOU USE AND YOUR COLLEAGUES USE TO MEASURE THESE GREAT THINGS.

SO THE HUBBLE TELESCOPE IS WHAT SHOWS US -- THE AVERAGE PERSON -- THE BEAUTIFUL IMAGES WE SEE.

BUT NOW THERE'S THIS NEW TELESCOPE COMING OUT -- THE JAMES WEBB SEGMENTED TELESCOPE.

SO TALK ABOUT THAT TECHNOLOGY A LITTLE BIT SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING.

AND THEN TALK ABOUT THAT GOLD THAT'S LAYERING OVER IT.

>> YEAH, SO, THE JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE IS MUCH LARGER THAN THE HUBBLE SPACE TELESCOPE.

IT'S ABOUT SIX AND A HALF METERS IN DIAMETER WHEN IT'S FULLY UNFURLED, AND IT'S MADE UP OF THESE SMALLER HEXAGONAL SEGMENTS.

THE REASON FOR THAT SEGMENTED DESIGN IS SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY GET THIS THING INTO SPACE.

WHICH MEANS THAT IT ACTUALLY HAS TO FIT IN THE VEHICLE THAT IS MOUNTED ON TOP OF YOUR ROCKET.

AND IT HAS TO FIT IN THERE SO YOU CAN LAUNCH IT.

SO JAMES WEBB'S SPACE TELESCOPE HAS WINGS THAT FOLD BACK, AND ONCE IT GETS OUT IN SPACE, THEY UNFOLD TO GET THE FULL SIX AND A HALF METERS IN DIAMETER.

THE REASON WHY WE USE GOLD IS IT'S EXTREMELY REFLECTIVE.

PARTICULARLY IN THE OPTICAL AND IN WHAT WE CALL THE NEAR-INFRARED WAVELENGTHS, JUST LONGER THAN THE WAVELENGTH OF LIGHT.

>> AND THAT TRANSLATES INTO ENHANCING THE IMAGE CAPACITY.

>> IT MEANS THAT OUR BUCKET IS REALLY GOOD AT COLLECTING PHOTONS.

>> WHAT ARE SOME OTHER KIND OF EXPLORATIONS?

I MEAN, THERE'S SOMETHING CALLED THE TWINKLE.

I KNOW "TWINKLE TWINKLE LITTLE STAR."

WHAT IS THIS PROJECT?

WHAT DO WE HOPE TO LEARN FROM IT?

>> TWINKLE IS ACTUALLY A COMMERCIAL SPACE COMPANY.

AND SO THEY'RE PARTNERING WITH PEOPLE IN ACADEMIA TO ACTUALLY BUILD A SPACE TELESCOPE FOR THOSE PEOPLE THAT WILL BE ACCESSED BY THE PEOPLE THAT ARE BUYING INTO THE TELESCOPE.

SO, IT'S A NEW PARADIGM.

AND IT'S LEVERAGING THE SORT OF BOOM IN THE COMMERCIAL SPACE INDUSTRY THAT WE'VE SEEN ALL OVER THE PLACE.

OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE FOUNDING MEMBERS.

AND AS FOUNDING MEMBERS, WE GET TO DEFINE THE TARGETS THAT TWINKLE IS GONNA LOOK AT.

AND DEFINE THE OBSERVATIONS THAT ARE GONNA BE MADE.

SO, THIS IS ANOTHER AVENUE THAT'S COMPLIMENTARY TO THE SORT OF DIRECT IMAGING THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT BEFORE THAT WILL ALLOW US TO CHARACTERIZE THE ATMOSPHERES OF PLANETS TO THE SIMILAR TO THE EARTH.

AND SO, I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT TWINKLE AND I THINK IT'S GONNA BE ANOTHER WAY OF ACTUALLY REALLY EXPLORING THE ATMOSPHERE OF EXOPLANETS AND LOOKING FOR BIOSIGNATURES.

>> SO, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A LOT OF TOOLS IN THE ASTRONOMER TOOL KIT TO REALLY SEE IF THERE IS LIFE BEYOND EARTH.

>> YES, WE HAVE AN AMAZING NUMBER OF TOOLS.

IT'S REALLY HUMBLING TO ACTUALLY GO BACK TO WHEN I STARTED GRADUATE SCHOOL IN 1995, WHEN HONESTLY MY THESIS WAS ON EXOPLANETS.

AND AT THE TIME, PEOPLE WERE STILL TALKING ABOUT EXOPLANETS IN KIND OF HUSH-HUSH TONES.

AND NO REALLY TALKED ABOUT SEARCHING FOR LIFE BECAUSE THAT WAS A LITTLE CRAZY.

BUT NOW IT'S VERY MUCH MAINSTREAM.

AND I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THE NEXT GENERATION OF ASTRONOMERS WHO ARE REALLY GOING TO BE ABLE TO CAPITALIZE ON ALL THESE DEVELOPMENTS.

AND THEY'RE GONNA BE THE ONES THAT ARE GONNA LEAD US INTO THIS NEW ERA WHERE EITHER WE'LL FIND THAT THERE'S LIFE IS COMMON OR NOT.

BOTH OF US WHICH ARE GONNA BE AMAZINGLY PROFOUND.

>> SO, ALL THE IMAGES THAT WE'RE SEEING FROM SPACE ARE SO FASCINATING.

THEY REALLY ENGAGE YOUR IMAGINATION.

BUT WHAT I'M HEARING IS THAT IT'S THE BIOSIGNATURES THAT WE SHOULD BE REALLY FOCUSING ON TO LOOK AT LIFE BEYOND THE COSMOS.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

I MEAN, WE KNOW THE ELEMENTS OF LIFE HERE ON THE EARTH.

BUT THE QUESTION IS WHAT ARE THE ELEMENTS OF LIFE OUT THERE, RIGHT?

THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING WITH.

AND IN FACT, SOME SCIENTISTS AND ASTRONOMERS ARE ACTUALLY LOOKING FOR NOT JUST EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE, BUT EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE.

>> AND IT SEEMS HARD ENOUGH TO LOOK FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE, BUT HOW DO WE GO ABOUT LOOKING FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE?

>> AH, WE ASKED THAT VERY QUESTION TO FAMOUS ASTRONOMER DR. JILL TARTER.

SHE'S THE CO-FOUNDER AND CHAIR EMERITUS OF THE SETI INSTITUTE -- THE INSTITUTE SEARCHING FOR BOTH EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE AND EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE.

SHE'S ROYALTY IN THE FIELD OF ASTRONOMY.

EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE.

BUT YOUR LIFE'S WORK ACTUALLY SEARCHED FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE.

CAN YOU DIFFERENTIATE THE TWO, FIRSTLY?

AND SECONDLY, WHY SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE?

>> WELL, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SEARCHING FOR LIFE, LOOKING FOR BIOSIGNATURES, AND SEARCHING FOR INTELLIGENCE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY LOOKING FOR TECHNOSIGNATURES, EVIDENCE OF TECHNOLOGY, IS THAT WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIND INTELLIGENCE DIRECTLY.

SO, WE USE TECHNOLOGY AS A PROXY.

WITH RESPECT TO LOOKING FOR LIFE, LOOKING FOR BIOSIGNATURES, WE USE OURSELVES AND LIFE AS WE KNOW IT AS THE PROXY.

RECOGNIZING THAT LIFE OUT THERE MAYBE BE SOMETHING ELSE.

BUT WE CAN LOOK TO SEE HOW LIFE ON THIS PLANET MODIFIES PARTICULARLY THE ATMOSPHERE OF THE PLANET IN WAYS THAT YOU COULD PERHAPS DETECT AT INTERSTELLAR DISTANCES.

SO LOOKING FOR DISEQUILIBRIUM CHEMISTRY IN THE ATMOSPHERE.

THE PRESENCE OF TWO VERY REACTIVE MOLECULES SUCH AS OXYGEN AND METHANE.

IN THE LAB, YOU PUT THOSE TOGETHER AND YOU GET CARBON DIOXIDE AND WATER AND THAT'S HAPPENING IN OUR ATMOSPHERE ALL THE TIME.

BUT BECAUSE WE'VE GOT BIOLOGY ON THE SURFACE, WE'VE GOT PLANTS PRODUCING OXYGEN AND WE'VE GOT BOVINE FLATULENCE, COW FART, PRODUCING METHANE, OUR ATMOSPHERE IS NOTICEABLY OUT OF EQUILIBRIUM.

AND WE'RE HOPING TO BE ABLE TO DETECT SUCH THINGS IN THE ATMOSPHERES OF AT LEAST NEARBY EXOPLANETS.

MAYBE THEY'VE DEVELOPED A TECHNOLOGY AND MAYBE THEY'VE MODIFIED THEIR ENVIRONMENT IN WAYS THAT WE COULD DETECT.

SO, LOOKING FOR BIOSIGNATURES, LOOKING FOR TECHNOSIGNATURES.

THEY ALL FIT UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF DISCIPLINE CALLED ASTROBIOLOGY.

AND EITHER ONE WOULD BE PRETTY PHENOMENAL TO FIND.

BUT I HAVE A BIAS FOR THOSE THAT CAN TALK BACK.

>> YOU'VE SPENT A CAREER AT THIS INSTITUTION, THIS PARAGON INSTITUTION CALLED SETI -- SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THAT ACTUALLY BEGAN.

WHAT'S THE ORIGIN OF SETI?

>> THE ORIGINS OF SETI AS A DISCIPLINE HAD ITS START IN 1959 WHEN GIUSEPPE COCCONI AND PHILIP MORRISON PUBLISHED A PAPER IN "NATURE" SUGGESTING THAT THESE NEW TOOLS THAT WE HAD, THANKS TO WORLD WAR II, CONVERSION OF RADARS TO RADIO TELESCOPES.

A NEW WAY TO LOOK AT THE UNIVERSE.

AND THAT PERHAPS THIS TECHNOLOGY WOULD ALLOW US TO FIND SOMEONE ELSE OUT THERE WHO ALSO HAD RADIO TELESCOPES AND COULD BROADCAST.

IN 1984, I CO-FOUNDED THE SETI INSTITUTE AS A WAY OF SAVING NASA MONEY.

WHEN I WROTE THE CHARTER, I DIDN'T ONLY TALK ABOUT SEARCHING FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL INTELLIGENCE.

I TALKED ABOUT BEING A RESEARCH SUPPORT HOME FOR SCIENTISTS INTERESTED IN STUDYING ANY ASPECT OF THE QUESTION OF LIFE BEYOND EARTH.

AND SO TODAY WE HAVE OVER 100 PhD SCIENTISTS WORKING AT THE SETI INSTITUTE, STUDYING ISSUES ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF LIFE, LIFE ON MARS PERHAPS, JUST A WHOLE PANOPLY OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF SCIENCE.

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR PIONEERING SPIRIT.

YOU DID MENTION KIND OF WITH THE RADIO TELESCOPES, MOST PEOPLE WHEN THEY HEAR TELESCOPES THEY THINK OF THE OPTICAL TELESCOPES GOING BACK TO GALILEO TO TODAY.

YOU LOOK THROUGH SOMETHING WITH YOUR EYE AND YOU SEE PRETTY STUFF OUTSIDE THERE.

CAN YOU JUST DESCRIBE A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT VERSUS HOW A RADIO TELESCOPE ACTUALLY WORKS TO DETECT SIGNALS?

>> RADIO WAVES ARE KIND OF JUST LIKE LONG, TIRED LIGHT WAVES.

AND SO WE BUILD A TELESCOPE THAT HAS A COLLECTING AREA.

LIGHT AND OPTICAL TELESCOPE.

AND THAT FOCUSES THE RADIO WAVES FROM THE SKY TO A POINT.

AND AT THAT POINT, WE PUT A RECEIVER THAT MEASURES THE VOLTAGES THAT ARE ACTUALLY BEING CAPTURED FROM THE SKY.

USING COMPUTERS, WE CAN TURN THOSE VOLTAGES -- A FUNCTION OF TIME -- INTO TWO-DIMENSIONAL IMAGES OF WHAT YOU WOULD SEE ON THE SKY IF YOUR EYES RECEIVED RADIO WAVES RATHER THAN OPTICAL WAVES.

AND WE CAN ALSO TAKE THE INCOMING RADIO WAVES AND LOOK FOR EXCESSES AT A PARTICULAR FREQUENCY.

MAYBE THINK OF IT AS A PARTICULAR CHANNEL ON THE RADIO DIAL.

AND NATURE SPREADS THE ENERGY IT OMITS OVER MANY, MANY CHANNELS.

BUT TECHNOLOGY CAN PRODUCE A SIGNAL THAT SHOWS UP IN ONLY ONE FREQUENCY, ONE RADIO CHANNEL.

SO THAT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.

WE LOOK FOR VERY, VERY SHORT PULSES THAT WE DON'T THINK NATURE CAN MANUFACTURE.

>> SO RELATED TO THAT, YOU KNOW, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IS KIND OF DOMINATING US NOW.

AS YOU SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL LIFE AND INTELLIGENT LIFE, TALK TO US ABOUT KIND OF THE TOOLS YOU USE AND ARE WE REALLY GENERATING TOOLS THAT MIGHT BE LOOKING AT A SLIVER OF THE MASSIVE UNIVERSE AND MISSING IT BY AN INFINITE NUMBER OF LIGHT YEARS?

OR ARE WE MAYBE CASTING A GREAT NET AND IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME?

>> SO I'M EXCITED ABOUT ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND MACHINE LEARNING, BECAUSE THERE MAY BE OTHER TYPES OF SIGNALS OUT THERE THAT WE ARE TOTALLY MISSING.

I THINK THAT WILL BE SO MUCH LESS BIASED THAT WHAT WE'RE CAPABLE OF DOING NOW AND MAY ALLOW US TO FIND TYPES OF SIGNALS THAT WE'VE ALREADY SEEN BUT HAVE TOTALLY MISSED WITH THE ALGORITHMS THAT WE'VE BEEN -- THE BIASES THAT WE'VE BEEN IMPOSING ON OUR DATA UNTIL NOW.

WE ALWAYS RESERVE THE RIGHT TO GET SMARTER IN THIS BUSINESS.

>> IF SETI WERE TO FIND CONCRETE EVIDENCE -- CONCRETE EVIDENCE -- OF INTELLIGENT LIFE ELSEWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE, WHAT DO WE DO WITH THAT?

>> WE'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS A LOT.

CERTAINLY WHEN WE USED TO BE A NASA PROJECT, WE HAD TO THINK ABOUT IT AND WRITE WHAT WE CALL POST-DETECTION PROTOCOLS.

AS A NASA PROJECT, IT EVEN GOT AS FINE-GRAINED AS WHICH ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR WAS GOING TO INFORM THE PRESIDENT.

RIGHT?

NOT A NASA PROJECT ANYMORE.

WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT ONE.

BUT WE HAVE TRIED TO PLAN FOR HOW WE CONVINCE OURSELVES THAT WHAT WE THINK WE FOUND IS ACTUALLY WHAT WE'VE FOUND.

SO IT INVOLVES TRYING TO GET AN INDEPENDENT CONFIRMATION FROM ANOTHER TELESCOPE SOMEWHERE ELSE, EQUIPMENT THAT WE DIDN'T BUILD AND SOFTWARE THAT WE DIDN'T WRITE.

AND WE'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO FORTIFY OURSELVES AGAINST A DELIBERATE HOAX.

SO INDEPENDENT VERIFICATION IS IMPORTANT.

ONCE YOU GET THERE THOUGH, YOU REALLY WANT TO TELL THE WHOLE WORLD, BECAUSE IF THERE'S A SIGNAL, IT'S COMING TO EARTH.

IT ISN'T COMING TO THE SETI INSTITUTE OR CALIFORNIA, RIGHT?

SO THAT INFORMATION IS ACTUALLY THE PROPERTY OF ALL HUMANKIND.

AND SO THE WORLD DESERVES TO KNOW.

>> MY TAKEAWAY FROM TODAY'S SHOW IS THAT OUR UNIVERSE IS AMAZING AND SO IS ALL THE TECHNOLOGY WE'RE USING TO DISCOVER LIFE OUTSIDE OF OUR PLANET.

BUT I DO THINK THAT MAYBE WE MAY BE YEARS AWAY FROM MAKING ANY SORT OF CONTACT.

>> WHILE I DON'T HAVE A TIMELINE YET TO PUT OUT THERE -- I MEAN, WE JUST GOT TO THINK ABOUT IT.

OUR PLANET EARTH THAT ORBITS OUR BEAUTIFUL SUN.

THAT'S ONE STAR OF THE BILLIONS OF STARS IN OUR GALAXY.

THAT'S ONE GALAXY IN THE BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF GALAXIES IN THE UNIVERSE.

THAT'S LIKE ONE GRAIN OF SAND OF ALL THE BEACHES ON ALL OF PLANET EARTH.

AND THEN YOU HAVE TO FIND ANOTHER GRAIN OF SAND.

IT'S PROBABLY GONNA HAPPEN.

HOPEFULLY IN OUR LIFETIME.

AND THE SCIENCE IS TRULY OUT OF THIS WORLD.

>> AND THAT'S QUITE EASILY DEMONSTRATED.

"QED WITH DR. B" FIND US ON FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, AND TWITTER.

AND WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME EITHER HERE OR OUT THERE IN THE UNIVERSE.

YOU HAVE AN EPIC, ILLUSTRIOUS CAREER BEING A FANTASTIC SCIENTIST, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE THIS GREAT REALITY, FRANKLY, THAT A PHENOMENAL BLOCKBUSTER FILM, STARRING AN AWARD-WINNING, PHENOMENAL ACTRESS NAMED JODIE FOSTER, CALLED "CONTACT", WAS INSPIRED, I BELIEVE, BY YOUR LIFE.

I GOT TO HEAR ABOUT THAT STORY.

>> WELL, LOOK, CARL SAGAN WROTE A BOOK ABOUT A WOMAN WHO DOES WHAT I DO.

AND CARL WAS A COLLEAGUE AND SO THERE ARE SOME ATTRIBUTES OF THAT SCIENTIST AND HER EXPERIENCES PARTICULARLY GROWING UP THAT I CERTAINLY HAD.

BUT I ACTUALLY THINK THAT THE "CONTACT" CHARACTER -- ELLIE ARROWAY, I THINK THAT'S CARL.

I THINK HE ACTUALLY PUT A LOT OF HIMSELF INTO THE CHARACTER.

SO I ACTUALLY HAD A FANTASTIC PRIVILEGE OF MEETING JODIE FOSTER BECAUSE I WAS DOWN A ARECIBO OBSERVATORY WHEN THEY WERE FILMING THE ARECIBO SEGMENT OF THE MOVIE "CONTACT."

AND -- OH, MY -- SHE IS SUCH A BRILLIANT PERSON.

SHE'S SO INTELLIGENT AND SO KIND.

IT WAS TERRIFIC.

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